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Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
532
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Posted - 2015.11.07 09:46:02 -
[1] - Quote
Are the RHML Reload times taken into account? It hugely nerfs your dps over time. You DPS will show as being really high but that's only true for a single clip.
It all depends on what you are planning on using the ship for, ratting/missions, or PvP
A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier
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Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
535
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Posted - 2015.11.08 21:16:04 -
[2] - Quote
At 23km the cruise dps drops to 0?
what?
A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier
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Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
535
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Posted - 2015.11.09 00:06:18 -
[3] - Quote
For the TFI I'd go armor tank, fury cruise and sentries. A little tight on CPU with a MWD but it can put out a decent amount of dps and apply that dps extremely well. If you go shield tank you lose a lot of that application for minor dps gain.
That said a Rattlesnake and Machariel will both out dps it, where the Rattlesnake will out tank it and the Mach will fly circles around it too. The rattlesnake is a superior RHML platform on top of all that because of more damage coming from drones and bigger damage bonus.
That said the TFI is a great ship with it's only real problem (in terms of PvE) being that there are better ships that do the same thing for about the same price 
A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier
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Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
569
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Posted - 2015.11.18 07:42:53 -
[4] - Quote
Uriam Khanid wrote:Arthur Aihaken wrote:
It's not range - it's velocity. Which means you don't have to monitor volleys anywhere near as much (or at all) against longer range targets.
 triple speed means range, and looks you are not so familiar with RHML. especially with caldari RHML, which have awesome rof. and when each volley is a nps ship, you will monitor .
He means that the range isn't the important part of the bonus that barghest gets, although that is what the bonus also gives. The important part of the bonus is that the increased velocity (that equals increased range yes) means that the volley of missiles hit before the next volley leaves the tubes. This means less wasted volleys or less having to monitor(pay attention to or counting) volleys so long as you're close enough.
This is also why ships with bonussed damage are better than ships with bonussed rof when it comes to Rapid missile launchers for PvE. A good example is the Orthrus and the Caracal. It basically reduces the effect the long reload has on the dps.
A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier
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Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
569
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Posted - 2015.11.18 07:59:19 -
[5] - Quote
Valacus wrote:RHML reload, 10 billion years. Cruise reload, not 10 billion years. Not much of a contest IMO. Rapid launchers aren't very good for PvE.
Actually, did a fun little test quickly in EFT. EFT can show damage with reloads taken into account.
Cruise Barghest using Faction cruise missiles and fitted with 3 faction BCU and 1 BCU II (Pretty standard layout) has a dps WITH reloads of 808dps (843dps with no reloads)
RHML Barghest using Fury missiles (Identical explosion velocity, much better explosion radius than faction cruise) also fitted with 3 faction BCU and 1 BCU II has a dps WITH reloads of 780 (1192 dps with reloads)
So for a cost of 28dps I get better application (explosion radius 180 vs 247) and far fewer wasted damage from overkill because smaller damage per volley. Come December that 28dps cost should be even less though no idea by how much.
The Barghest really is the champion of RHM and Torps (more so than the Golem imho)
A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier
|
Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
576
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Posted - 2015.11.19 08:20:53 -
[6] - Quote
Loradan Illstari wrote:Anize Oramara wrote:Valacus wrote:RHML reload, 10 billion years. Cruise reload, not 10 billion years. Not much of a contest IMO. Rapid launchers aren't very good for PvE. Actually, did a fun little test quickly in EFT. EFT can show damage with reloads taken into account. Cruise Barghest using Faction cruise missiles and fitted with 3 faction BCU and 1 BCU II (Pretty standard layout) has a dps WITH reloads of 808dps (843dps with no reloads) RHML Barghest using Fury missiles (Identical explosion velocity, much better explosion radius than faction cruise) also fitted with 3 faction BCU and 1 BCU II has a dps WITH reloads of 780 (1192 dps with reloads) So for a cost of 28dps I get better application (explosion radius 180 vs 247) and far fewer wasted damage from overkill because smaller damage per volley. Come December that 28dps cost should be even less though no idea by how much. The Barghest really is the champion of RHM and Torps (more so than the Golem imho) Fewer wasted volleys, but you're using up way more ammunition since RHML makes up the DPS in rate of fire vs. volley damage for cruise. I still say cruise missiles are a huge win over RHML.
Check the prices for T2 ammo vs faction ammo. T2 ammo pretty cheap. A quick look at eve central T2 scourge fury is less than 400isk each, faction scourge cruise is almsot 4 times that however cruise volley is only slightly more than double that of the heavy missiles.
That means cruise missile costs are actually MORE (almsot double) than that of heavy missiles. You actually save money using HRML over using cruise.
A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier
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Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
576
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Posted - 2015.11.19 09:00:59 -
[7] - Quote
So interesting thing, i did the same little test I did on the barghest on the Typhoon Navy (Damage bonus rather than rof bonus like T1 phoon) and the dps with reloads on RHML is only 18 dps less than Cruise. Larger amount of damage coming from drones though.
Only downsides of course is missiles are a lot slower, lower range, counting volleys all that jazz and the ship itself is slower than the barghest. The change coming December might be enough to bring the Barghest up to Typhoon Navy level to be honest. People might start ratting with it 0.o
A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier
|
Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
582
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Posted - 2015.11.20 10:30:04 -
[8] - Quote
Uriam Khanid wrote:EFT thing is one thing. Reality - very different.
Yes and no.
Yes relying on ONLY dps as shown in eft is usually where people go wrong and is where the disdain for 'EFT warriors' comes from. For example they look at Torp and Cruise dps and say that Torps are obviously WAY better because the dps is a lot higher. In that case they're not looking at the application of the damage nor the range or speed of the toprs, etc. A very common mistake.
However I'm looking at all the parts, not just the dps but also the reload, rof, explosion radius, explosion velocity, velocity of the missiles and even cost of the ammunition. All of these things together make up the reality. Some directly influences how fast you kill things and others are quality of life kind of things. If you take all of the components that make up reality into account then EFT = Practice(usually).
When comparing the two hulls (Barghest and Typhoon) in terms of RHML effectiveness both have their advantages. Depends on what you want to use them for. The primary thing going for the Barghest is the missile velocity bonus that is a HUGE quality of life type of thing. The new Missile guidance enhancers also really shine on the Barghest IMHO. Want to train T2 Heavy missiles just so I can fly this:
[Barghest, RHML]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Ballistic Control System II
Missile Guidance Enhancer II
Missile Guidance Enhancer II
Republic Fleet Target Painter
Shadow Serpentis 500MN Microwarpdrive
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800
Pith C-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Small Tractor Beam II
Large Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II
Large Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II
Large Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II
Hammerhead II x5
Hobgoblin II x5
A Brawler Fleet Typhoon version would look something like this (You can also do a sentry sniper with range scripts):
[Typhoon Fleet Issue, RHML Brawler]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Imperial Navy Drone Damage Amplifier
Imperial Navy Drone Damage Amplifier
Reactive Armor Hardener
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Centus C-Type Large Armor Repairer
Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800
Federation Navy 500MN Microwarpdrive
Republic Fleet Target Painter
Missile Guidance Computer II, Missile Precision Script
Missile Guidance Computer II, Missile Precision Script
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Drone Link Augmentor II
Small Tractor Beam II
Large Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II
Large Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II
Large Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II
Hammerhead II x5
Hobgoblin II x5
Ogre II x5
A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier
|
Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
583
|
Posted - 2015.11.20 15:40:44 -
[9] - Quote
Uriam Khanid wrote:Target painter useless. you will finished most targets faster than TP ends circle. on many target you need to shoot 1-2-3 volley, than proseed to next npc
and MJD will help you a lot as offensive module on TFI.
about Barghest - i am agree that triple speed is good, but if you look on bonus of the speed bonus - its range. and shooting on 100km with such rof means waste of ammo and ability to quickly wrecked npc ships.
Target painter Duration: 5 seconds
RHML Duration 2.6 seconds
Also with a missile speed of 22km/s (with two guidance enhancers) so long as the target is within about 55km you wont waste volleys. If it is further you will waste maximum of 1 volley. The volleys are half the wasted damage of a wasted cruise volley and only costs 1/4 the isk.
A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier
|
Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
583
|
Posted - 2015.11.20 17:45:12 -
[10] - Quote
Valacus wrote:
Scourge fury cruise missiles costs 440 isk in Jita. Scourge fury heavies cost 398. So no, not almost double. Not by a long shot. Again, cruise wins.
Do try and keep up. Faction cruise and fury heavies have the same explosion velocities with fury heavies having better explosion radius. This is why I compared those two specifically. Otherwise you have a problem with application so your Fury cruise does far less damage than advertised or you need additional application on a hull that already has no bonuses to application. Here I'll even quote you the bit I originally wrote:
Quote:Actually, did a fun little test quickly in EFT. EFT can show damage with reloads taken into account.
Cruise Barghest using Faction cruise missiles and fitted with 3 faction BCU and 1 BCU II (Pretty standard layout) has a dps WITH reloads of 808dps (843dps with no reloads)
RHML Barghest using Fury missiles (Identical explosion velocity, much better explosion radius than faction cruise) also fitted with 3 faction BCU and 1 BCU II has a dps WITH reloads of 780 (1192 dps with reloads)
So for a cost of 28dps I get better application (explosion radius 180 vs 247) and far fewer wasted damage from overkill because smaller damage per volley. Come December that 28dps cost should be even less though no idea by how much.
The Barghest really is the champion of RHM and Torps (more so than the Golem imho)
This isn't rocket science.
Ok, so it kinda is
A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier
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